Here, read on for an in-depth look at common knife steels as well as the best knife steels around. Here, youll learn the different factors that go into each steel, ratings for a wide variety of steel alloys, and youll get some recommendations for types of knives different types of steel work well for. Spyderco has produced several production knives with Maxamet, and the steel debuted on the ZT0888. Hi Larrin Your estimate of 420HCs corrosion resistance is different here than in your October, 2019 post on corrosion resistance testing: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/10/14/corrosion-resistance-testing/ This refers to the angle of your edge and the thickness of the knife behind the edge. Advantages: Toughness, edge retention. My favorites of the high edge retention group are Vanadis 8 and CPM-10V. For example, increasing edge retention from Z-Tuff to 3V (100 mm in the CATRA test) led to a drop in over 10 ft-lbs, a similar drop is seen by going from 3V to CPM-CruWear. Also many hardwoods will dull planer blades just because theyre more dense. Perhaps a bigger issue with the upper temper is for stainless steels, as there is a significant reduction in corrosion resistance by tempering at 1000F instead of 400F. 14C28N knife will dull faster, but it is easy to sharpen. Steel produced in China is generally less expensive. Sandvik 14C28N steel is better than D2 steel in corrosion resistance and toughness. And we list budget-friendly knives that have a professional style and grace to them. The ratings I have are for an optimal heat treatment. But which? Lots of information is still specific to this article, however. CN Vs VG-10 The Japanese steel, VG10 offers slightly higher edge retention but has the same level of hardness as 14C28N. Your email address will not be published. most knives are being made out of these and other mediocre steels like 14c28n, 420j2, 425m. Lets talk about the clip-on pocket knife. Also known as Z-Finit, Zapp produces this steel in America. 2. Steels do come at various price points, however, depending on the cost of producing them and the cost for the knife company to work with them. There are still a few things I dont know but we have enough information to make educated guesses where data isnt available. D2 steel does not contain enough chromium to make it stainless steel. To view the purposes they believe they have legitimate interest for, or to object to this data processing use the vendor list link below. So what is the best steel for knives? With recommended hardness range of 55-62 HRC; the 14C28N is great for knife applications which place very high demands on edge sharpness, edge stability and corrosion resistance such as chefs knives, hunting knife, pocket knives and fishing knives. Im writing a book about choosing a knife for EDC. We and our partners use data for Personalised ads and content, ad and content measurement, audience insights and product development. But as the market has grown and newer steels have come out, it has fallen in price and prestige. Note:There is a powder-metal version called CPM154 thats purer than the non-powder version, making it easier for knifemakers to grind. Also D2 is not stainless as at least 5% of its chromium is tied up in carbides where it doesnt help prevent corrosion. Its probably in between Vanadis 8 and 10V. Not as tough as the best carbon steels, it's tougher than most . It is among the best steel that will offer exceptional toughness while still maintaining excellent corrosion resistance. Theyll be fully attributed to you with website and Patreon links, obviously. Low Carbon steels like AEB-L wont hold up to wood cutting even though it can hit 64 hard, it just doesnt have enough Carbon. 14C28N knives are easier to sharpen than D2 knives. Due to its higher Chromium content, S30v is a lot less likely to corrode/rust than the D2 Steel. Because of the material difference, the blades differ in toughness, edge retention, corrosion resistance, and ease of sharpening. BD1 isnt terribly hard but sharpens easily. Coarse-carbide tool steel grades. Some of these steels also have vanadium (CruForgeV) or tungsten (Blue Super, V-Toku2, 1.2519) for increased wear resistance. For these reasons D2 steel is a good for smaller folding knives, but is not ideal for large fixed blades such as dedicated choppers and large survival knives. We and our partners use cookies to Store and/or access information on a device. MagnaCut These steels are best for knives that dont see impacts and are some of the most difficult to sharpen. Obviously Ill let you check the manuscript prior to publication. Maxamet is one of two current high-hardness kings, with HRc marks in the high 60s approaching 70, a hardness usually only seen in carbide steels. Not every wood is soft pine. I actually dont recommend that enthusiasts spend all that much time analyzing the exact composition of different steels and trying to guess their properties. Blue Super and 1.2562 have higher edge retention but relatively low toughness. It is a premium steel that is known for its excellent balance of hardness, corrosion resistance, and edge retention. Pretty interesting that regrinding a knife you already have can seemingly take its performance to that of significantly better steels. And for high toughness you want little or no carbide. I was recommended the Rat 1 in D2 and I also found that I really like the design of the Ruike p135 and p128. This steel, as the name implies has a professional styling to it. My test is for comparing different steels, not necessarily for a go/no go test for saltwater applications. High Alloy Tool Steel and High Speed Steel Ratings. Any thoughts how Sleipner might fare in the ratings? However, Kershaw asked Sandvik to make their 13C26 steel more resistant to corrosion, and the result was 14C28N. A2 knives need care taken to avoid rust and are often coated to inhibit corrosion. https://cedric-ada-store.creator-spring.com/listing/brickard-heritage-collectionGood gravy its bricky on thingsSubscribe and hit the bell! For example, D2 has enough chromium to be stainless (~12%) but its high carbon means that too much chromium carbide is formed to leave enough chromium for stainless levels of corrosion resistance. In my experience, it will tarnish and discolor quickly. I did a large study of different knives with identical sharpening and edge geometry. Spyderco is the only production company using this steel, though Michael Gavik of Gavko knives produced a number of customs in LC 200N. As with high alloy tool steels, the amount of vanadium can be a shortcut to predicting the general level of wear resistance and edge retention. Lately Ive been edcing one of those instead of a nice folder. Alloying elements are an important ingredient vital in getting the best steel for the job. Typically an increase in corrosion resistance means a reduction in potential hardness for a given steel. But unlike most high-end steels, SPY27 is an easily user-serviceable powder steel. and yet millons of knives are being made out of 1.4116 (aisi 420mov?) Micarta I cant seem to match steel to the SS data points on the toughness/tcc graph. Theyre excellent for choppers, hard-use folders, and outdoor knives that see impacts and heavy use when used at medium hardness. D2 steel is high carbon steel with no extra addition of Cr or Mo, that's why it is prone to corrosion. Read more about how it works here. However, in our testing there is a reduction in toughness by using the high temperature range rather than the low temperature range, such as was found with CPM-CruWear (Z-Wear) or CPM-10V. Around 61 Rc usually. 7:00am-5:00pm, 10am-7pm Tuesday - Friday Plus the charts get messier, and I dont always have data for a wide range of hardness values. I would suggest adding a second axis to the ratings charts that show the data values that the 0-10 ratings are based on (unnotched charpy impact energy, 1% saltwater , Total cards cut, etc.). What makes 1.4116 such a bad performer in regards to toughness on par with ultra high carbide steel like S125V? The edge retention and ease of sharpening have been what we expect with D2. And while it can be hard depending on the heat treat, I have found it easily chips, causing microscopic dings in the edge when hardened to a high level on a thin blade. However, it can be somewhat complicated because an edge can dull from many causes wear, micro-chipping, deformation, or corrosion. drop point Available in Kershaw knives (as of 2012) and in other . It does have chromium but is not as sufficient as required to be a type of stainless steel. The unique process used to make LC 200N results in a fine-grain structure. High Alloy Tool Steels and High Speed Steels. Spyderco offers this as the high-end steel for many of its evergreen blades, like the Paramilitary 2, Paramilitary 3, Manix 2, and Native 5. 52100 Im a woodworker and Im interested in making better performing plane irons and chisels. It has high levels of chromium and carbon, making it extremely resistant to corrosion. It shows 3 stainless steels from 750-800tcc but the edge retention graph only has 1 SS in that range, S90v. 8670 and 5160 are good choices for large knives that need very high toughness. The choice between the two depends on your knife needs. Are you familiar with anything similar on the metallurgy/knife steel side of things? They make excellent everyday carry steels, especially for light- and medium-duty tasks. imo o lot depends on how the blade is sharpened. But in my experience, it has been nothing but great. Therefore, you cannot purchase the knife for use in corrosive environments. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. This isnt exactly how steel works; different properties are difficult to increase without affecting something else. That old pine in particular is some crazy hard stuff. Steels that are improperly heat treated have excess retained austenite which makes them extremely difficult to deburr. Recommendations are welcome, If you are cutting against metal I would maybe try K390 in a Spyderco or an S110V knife if you need stainless. Why do knives make the best gifts? Spyderco has their own salt spray test setup to determine the corrosion resistance and they determined that MagnaCut is sufficiently corrosion resistant for their salt series of knives. : knife a with a toughness of 5 and an angle of 20 degrees will perform as well in edge retention as knife b with a toughness of 3 and an angle of 15 degrees. Jesse Jarosz, a custom maker from Montana, regularly uses AEB-L. Low Alloy tool steels have small alloy additions to increase hardenability so they harden more easily in oil rather than water. I believe they are made of simple carbon steel. Many steel ratings seem to over-emphasize edge retention. Not to sound like a ship, but these two knife inspiration makes this an eye-catching knife. D2 is not a bad steel, but it has been around a long time and is somewhat mundane by current standards. Are you okay with that? 14C28N knives offer better toughness than D2 knives. Continue with Recommended Cookies. Steel with high wear resistance is more costly to manufacture, as the knife company goes through more abrasives to grind the knives. The D2 knife blade offers high edge retention and wear resistance. (Some crazy folks clean their Swiss Army knivesin adishwasher. show very different and even inversed behaviour (e.g. D2 has been around for more than 20 years, an eternity in. Each steel was tested with a knife that was produced just for the test, and then sharpened the same way for each test (15 dps 400 grit CBN sharpening). Another is that 8Cr13MoV is a generic name for a specific composition while AUS-8 is a name of a product by a specific company. . Though technically not a stainless steel at least 14% chromium, and D2 usually has 12% its relatively corrosion-resistant. CPM 3V I used to work for a company that did reclaimed old growth lumber (swamp cedar, old growth pine and oak beams, etc) and we went through planer blades twice as fast as the cabinetry shop next door (turns out the neighbors like it when you put all the loud businesses together and far away), which mostly cut fresh cherry, oak, maple, hickory etc. The steel was developed to be free from chromium carbides which gives it properties similar to balanced non-stainless tool steels like CPM-4V and CPM-CruWear. Become a patron and gain access to awesome rewards including early access to articles or a Knife Steel Nerds mug! Its so high in hardness that Maxamet knives usually ship with desiccating packages. For example, the Si space is blank for several of the carbon steels because they have a relatively wide acceptable range, not because the element isnt added. Could you please compare it to Shirogami #1 and Agomi #1, I didnt find anything in terms of grain size ragarding thoese steels on the Internert. and corrosion resistance than the 420HC steel. Properties: 14C28N: D2: Edge retention: 4/10: 7/10: Ease of sharpening: 6/10: 3/10: Corrosion resistance: 4/10: 4/10: Toughness: Sorry, most of my previous comment was borderline word salad. If you would like to change your settings or withdraw consent at any time, the link to do so is in our privacy policy accessible from our home page.. Though technically not a stainless steel due to its composition, in use it performs exactly like one. third and most important is what happened to the burr. Custom maker Brian Trudeau uses Nitro V, and Massdrops Perpetua design is the first production knife to sport it. It's more often pitted against the VG10 since both are widely popular high-carbon stainless steel grades. 1060 Display: 24 per page Sort by: Featured View CIVIVI Voltaic Flipper Knife Stainless Steel Handle With Micarta Inlay (3.48" 14C28N Blade) $88.30 Add to cart However, Kershaw asked Sandvik to make their 13C26 steel more resistant to corrosion, and the result was 14C28N. Is it similar but worse or better at one of the 3 things? However, even in this case there is the complicating factor of carbide and abrasive hardness. A mirror finish is the best at resisting corrosion and a rough finish means rust and corrosion is more likely. Short of purposeful abuse, its all but impossible to chip an edge on an INFI blade. CPM-S90V, CPM-S110V, CPM-10V, and Bohler K390 each fit in this category. Hit like and all t. Would love to see where S7 sits on the Corrosion/Edge/Toughness meter. Monday-Friday Thanks for the Article Larrin, Its easy to sharpen. For example, Bohler M390, CTS-204P, and CPM-20CV are all nearly identical and indistinguishable in practice. D2 is another medium-range tool steel. Theres a green triangle at about RC 60.5 and toughness over 40. -> Maybe prequenched 14c28n could be a little tougher than AEB-L? Now that we know what each factor represents, we can see how the steels rank against one another. 1. Developed by New Jersey Steel Baron, Nitro V is a non-powder steel marketed as an enhanced version of AEB-L. Nitro V, as its name indicates, adds nitrogen to AEB-Ls formula to make the steel even more corrosion-resistant. Most of the discussion of how the ratings were generated, various caveats and details, etc. (I think the 420HC estimate in that post was based on simulation or computer modeling, since you didnt spray testing any of the 400 series.) Water is a severe quenchant that can often lead to warping or cracking. Aluminum oxide is used in most common sharpening stones and it is softer than vanadium carbide, which makes sharpening high vanadium steels more difficult. Note just because a blade is made from the premium or high-end steels listed above does not automatically mean its better than the lesser steels. Different companies can vary some between each other making the same product, while a single company is going to be more consistent. Find your right answers here! While 14C28N and D2 are both pretty to look at, buyers always regard one over the other. 420HC doesnt hold an edge well, but its relatively stain-resistant and tough. Thanks in advance, Simon, For hard use everyday cutting in a packing company, Everything from fome, cardboard, tape, thick plastics, And plastic wrap that is against metal. Steels with very high vanadium content like Vanadis 8, CPM-10V, K390, CPM-15V, etc. Why do you give a coin with a knife as a gift? You said wood is not a particularly abrasive material and in absolute terms that is very true. The D2 version is heavier and harder, but doesn't cut as smoothly. Is 440A really that much better than 420HC, or have you found a narrower gap? Since the heat treatment is done before you get your knife, and its impossible to tell how good the heat treatment is with your eye, you often must rely on the manufacturers reputation for a good heat treat. There is an acceptable range for every element so this doesnt mean that 1084 will always have exactly 0.84% carbon. Wear resistance, be it high or low, is the most significant determining factor in ease of sharpening. D2 has a relatively high amount of carbon in its composition (1.55%), more than twice as much as AEB-L (0.68%), but most of that carbon goes into making chromium carbides instead of into solution in the steel matrix, leaving D2 with only ~0.5% C in solution and very large carbides that are good for wear resistance but bad for toughness. I see very little about cryo outside of journal articles, and I wonder which knifemakers use it. Its very similar chemically to RWL 34 and ATS-34. while its a very intuitive method and a simple way to e.g. YMMV Instead, Vargo titanium uses a unique material called sintered titanium-ceramic alloy. 14C28N steel is known to offer among the best if not the best toughness in knife steels out there. For decades, different steels have been made to fit this category. 14C28N VS Steel. The most balanced is CPM-MagnaCut which is in an area all by itself on the chart. D2 steel My other knives are a Real Steel E77 8cr14mov. Rather than upgrade from D2 to M4 or S30V just drop the angle from 40 degrees to 30 degrees. So we get back to my original question: if a D2 planer blade at 58 Rc and the associated level of toughness will perform acceptably with a 30 sharpening angle, is there some way to extrapolate at what sharpening angle another steel with higher toughness might perform equally well? I measured corrosion resistance of a slightly lower carbon 420 here: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2020/03/02/cpm-spy27-experiments-toughness-corrosion-resistance-and-more/. I would think that the label applies to either the line or the outlier, but probably not both unless the outlier is a measurement error. Cookie Notice Therefore I will be showing the ratings of the steels graphically in terms of toughness-edge retention balance, where steels that are high and to the right have the best combination, and you choose the steel based on the level of toughness or edge retention necessary for the knife. D2 steel, on the other hand, is tool steel, and its knives shine on edge retention and wear resistance. CTS-204P and CPM-20CV are nearly identical steels made by other manufacturers. One such person is Dr. Larrin Thomas, a professional metallurgist raised by a knife maker and a giant knife nerd. However, there are other factors. You cannot leave your 14C28N knives in water overnight and expect them not to rust. Vancron would work well in a kitchen knife. I dipped each in lemon juice and left in open air and tested after 30, 100, and 300 minutes, dipping in lemon juice again each time. If youre having trouble finding the steel you want, see if another manufacturer makes something much like it. VG 10 Steel, https://knifebasics.com/author/freelancer/, How To Choose Between The 14C28N And The D2, 14c28n Steel Is Good for Knife? The line is only in the neighborhood of 5 of the datapoints. Also, what kind of steel is used for utility knives? The big names in powder metallurgy are Crucible (CPM- steels), Carpenter (CTS- steels), Bohler Microclean (M390), and Uddeholm Superclean (Elmax, Vanax). For this perfect size that for most tasks and the slim tip allows the knife to excel at piercing and detail work. It has a lower hardness and edge retention as compared to the 9Cr knife. The ratings in this article rate ease of sharpening primarily based on wear resistance, but if a knife is difficult to sharpen, there may be other factors in play. worldwide, even the chinese have an equivalent (8cr13mov). Often used for combat knives. Anybody know how the Sandvik stacks up against all these other steels. Stainless steels usually top out around 64 Rc and may require careful heat treating to get there. The best knife for you should meet your needs and fit your budget. s30v No idea. The knives can be used in humid and wet environments without rusting. whats even more disturbing is that cvn and fracture toughness sometimes (often?) Its very hard, tough, and corrosion-resistant. D2 knives, on the other hand, are challenging to sharpen. 14C28N steel holds good hardness. Opinel Number 9 in carbon steel, and a Cold Steel Tanto Lite in their stainless steel. The hardness level of steel is determined using a universal scale called the "Rockwell C Test", commonly called the Rockwell hardness scale (HRC). The 8Cr13MoV vs D2 debate. These steels have sufficient toughness to handle thinner edge geometry. Below are some great ways to make your knife your own. AEB-L is a non-powder steel produced by Swedish steelmaker Uddeholm. Would be great if some manufactures changed their steels based on this information. Steels that can be high in edge retention and toughness are desirable for general use knives. On the other hand, 9cr18mov has a slightly higher molybdenum content which gives it higher hardness from quenching and helps drive carbide formation. Corrosion on knife steels most usually takes the form of rust, patina, and staining. However, the relative difference in toughness between these different examples are similar. Therefore, if your priority is a knife with the best toughness on the market, you can never go wrong with the varieties of 14C28N. And given the recipe, it has a low number of carbides, the extra-hard microcrystals in steel that provide the hardness necessary for a stable and sharp edge. 14c28n vs. AUS-8 Steel Goes to show that science not marketing or conjecture is what determines a good steel, 51shitty? They made planer blades out D2 for its edge retention. 1. I mean the box cutter type, with the replaceable trapezoidal blades. Contact me if you have any questions or input! I've heard d2 is miles better and i dont want to pay 90 for the p135 and get a significantly inferior blade to paying 110 for the D2 Rat. The chart below has dotted lines which indicate the average effect of hardness for any given steel. The definition of a quality knife differs among users because of varied needs, but there are basic properties that every quality knife must have. Its not a regression line, it is just a line through the best steels. Honestly, yes, because its perfect steel for your knife, besides it depends on which knife, so when youre talking about chef knives, then 14c28n would be an ideal pick thanks to professional corrosion resistance and edge retention. Still looking forward to magnacut making it into high volume production and use. Jeff I worked at a company that heat treated D2 (1.55% C) planer blades for a company that built wood working equipment for commercial shops. This is basically a retrofit of a very old steel, adding more carbon to the recipe of 420 (hence the HC for high carbon). It richly deserves its reputation for high-quality gained over the years by Sandvik, a Swedish manufacturer of world-renowned steel. 14C28N Most of these steels are carbon steels, except for CPM MagnaCut (the fancy steel cooked up specifically for knives by Dr. Thomas), which has excellent corrosion resistance. It rusts like nothing Ive seen before and it dull just by looking at it. Maxamets hardness results in incredible edge retention and a nightmarish sharpening and machining experience. The old rule in steels used to be corrosion resistance, toughness, or hardness choose two. But SM100 (the trade name for Nitinol 60) threw that out the window when introduced to the cutlery world. We all have our preference, but overall, preference leans towards the pocket knife with a clip. A hunting knife has a singlepurpose: processing meat after akill. One important concept I want to hammer home is that there isnt one property that is most important. Divers, sailors, and anglers need knives that will resist corrosion above all else. Less expensive, conventionally produced steels include VG-10, D2, 154CM, N690, and 440C. 14C28N and D2 knives are affordable high-end knives. If you need something that soaks up abuse, try 3V. Tanto The 1.4116 I tested has large carbides in it which is presumably the reason for low measured toughness: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/05/26/new-micrographs-of-42-knife-steels/. Thank you. nevertheles its importand to keep in mind what exactly is going on there (abrasive plastic media, loss of most of cutting ability during the first few strokes etc.). There one of the best reason that he is highly regarded as a knife designer. Rex 121 23.5% vanadium carbide, 4% molybdenum/tungsten carbide (M6C), Conventional Ingot vs Powder Metallurgy Carbide Structure. Although it should be noted that there doesnt seem to be a need for the stainlessness on a wood working tool. Most of the midrage ifferings have 14c28n, how does it compare to d2 in your experience? The D2 steel compares nicely with 14c28n steel in terms of edge retention, as it's quite hard as well. The excellent corrosion resistance properties of 14C28N are attributed to the high amounts of chromium in its composition. SUS410 Is that regression line (or other trend line?) Kershaw, Spyderco and Schrade are among some of the popular users of this steel.. 14C28N. Wear resistance comes from hardness and carbides, hard particles formed between carbon and another element like Vanadium or Tungsten. A quick check shows the compositions of these steels are nearly identical, so based on that Id expect them to perform similarly (differences in heat treat and blade geometry aside). Ah ok that wasnt mentioned. High wear resistance is not particularly necessary when only performing chopping, and its good ease in sharpening helps when having to restore the edges. MagnaCut has the lowest chromium of any of the below steels but all of its chromium is in solution (no chromium carbide) and the fact that it has no chromium carbide also gives it the maximum level of corrosion resistance for a given amount of chromium. Anyway, buff up the O1v and it cuts leather easily. Steel is a combination of iron and carbon with other elements. compare different heat treats of the same component, it lacks a theoretical foundation and its not clear how to relate it to the real world. Socould you please clarify which steel is the outlier and which is the line>. But a few overly vocal forgers were making claims about it that clearly were not true especially when comparing it to 5160. After the steel is quenched it is reheated to a lower temperature to increase toughness and decrease hardness. It is among the steel knives with exceptional toughness while maintaining excellent corrosion resistance. If the steel is overheated in austenitizing, very large reductions in toughness are possible. Dr. Thomas is a friend of ours here at Blade HQ, and with his help, weve worked to create this knife steel guide. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. ApexUltra is a steel that we are working on that had excellent properties in small batch production (50 lbs). That said, it's not as tough as many other steels and exponentially tougher to sharpen. thanks thats interesting. Even metallurgists can have a difficult time estimating properties just based on the elements. But Ive found it lacking in hardness, even when compared to cheaper steels like AUS-8. If you want for best steel 14c28n and others steel then you can ready 14c28n vs 420hc review. Many custom makers enjoy AEB-L, as its easy to machine but still has a high hardness, around 62 HRc. The majority of knives target 63 Rc or below so this limitation of stainless steels does not always come into play but can be an important factor for certain knives targeting high performance and thin edges. There was significant sharpness loss with 1095, almost none with 440A, and D2 was in between. 14C28N. Is this at the same hardness? 14c28n steel would be a great pick thanks to its high retention and corrosion, it would be great for a normal EDC knife. Using 10 dps sharpening (20 degrees inclusive on the chart) leads to about 5x the edge retention of 25 dps. The 14C28N stainless steel from Swedish manufacturer Sandvik is considered an upgrade to their 13C26 steel (described below). Therefore you will use it for a long time without requiring frequent sharpening. AEB-L and 14C28N are the best in the high toughness group. Most edge retention tests isolate wear resistance or how long it takes abrasives to dull your edge in whatever youre cutting. Notice that with the same edges on the same media, the 9Cr18Mov from Real Steel performs about as well as the average Chinese D2. It has excellent edge retention, corrosion resistance, and ease of sharpening. LC200N If I made some plane irons from AEB-L at 63 Rc (where its still tougher than 1095 at 59-60 Rc, the standard vintage steel in plane irons), could I drop my sharpening angle from 30-35 to 25?