Personally I do not believe God would ever anoint a blatant false teacher. Church buildings do not equal Jesus Christ. I am more interested in why the pew sitters fall for it and focusing there. He can be reached at 836-1253, spokin@gannett.com, on Twitter @stevepokinNL or by mail at 651 N. Boonville, Springfield, MO 65806. to confer grace through the sacraments. It is a winner! I dont beleive that for a moment. The mighty Kari Jobe is featured in some of the faking it videos they play in the classes. I view it as wisdom. He did it from one of the most powerful places in Southwest Missouri the pulpit of James River Church, where he leads an Assemblies of God congregation that often tops 9,000 worshipers on Sundays. Thats why I would use a better example: If you knew that someone is a recovering alcoholic, would you employ him as a barkeeper? He could continue the stance that we could not leave because we were under discipline and offend the large donor, or he could let us leave in peace and not offend the donor. When you go to these posh country clubesque entertainment centers their #1 priority is to get visitors connected and plugged in. . (Not that I waiting with bated breath). At some point, with enough outcry and rage from outside, they may hopefully see it as you did looking up at that 3 x 5 card on your bulletin. If so associating with Driscoll they can get the thug part down. I just took a year of online classes at one of them. The Jews in Damascus want to kill him and he is snuck out of town by believers. The problem is that the average pew-sitter has no idea what things a leader should be judged by, and they merely judge based on either looks, speaking ability, or how fun the service is. What I dont get is why Hillsong and Assemblies of God (James River Church), who have extremely different views on women in the church would even consider someone like Mark Driscoll as a special speaker. pic.twitter.com/FwaVnYEZIi. In your mega travels Lydia, is this homogenization of bad practices the norm? Of course, we have yet to determine whether there has been a real change in Mark Driscoll's life. Its just that it isnt what a NT pastor of a group of Christians should be doing. Pastors that dont understand the devestation they cause by playing God in peoples lives, especially women and childrens lives, have no business calling themselves christians and certainly shouldnt be in positions where people might think they are speaking for God Himself when they tell them how to live. It so important, huh, that we share that Jesus came to save us from sin, and to give us His life. helpful or even hopeful in terms of my eternal afterlife. Even after becoming a believer he wanted more. Those who challenged him were openly chastised, disgracefully removed from membership and/or shunned until the organization he created finally said enough is enough and sent him packing (however, with a nice severance package). Because 12 years ago Walter Salles made an awesome movie about him called The Motorcycle Diaries starring the gentle heartthrob Gael Garcia Bernal as Che. Why am I concerned? Its also called community in a box. But I did find this on the IRS website: A tax-exempt organization "may not attempt to influence legislation as a substantial part of its activities and it may not participate in any campaign activity for or against political candidates.". A group of followers dealing directly with each other and not with an institution sounds appealing. Personally I am not really all that interested in what the celebrites do as in endorsing, spinning events or behavior, etc. He explained that wide is the path refers mainly to churches posing as Christian churches (mostly for millions in profit like GW) not the fringe Christian-like churches or belief systems (like LDS). With this much covidiocy in the country, we are proving ourselves to be the dumbest nation on earth. Its just another singing and acting gig for many of them. Ive recently read Wayne Jacobsen Finding Church, Frank Viola Finding Organic Church, Terry Stanley The way Church Was Meant To Be and found what they think the church should be an interesting concept but so far Im not convinced. He screamed and swore. IMO, They are still who they are. we will see jesus face to face I dont want you to take your slander etc with you. It is profoundly ironic that false teachers twist this particular scripture in an abusive way to their advantage just so that they can continue abusing. All the celebrity has to do is play the victim/repented card. So glad for the folks that started the petition to dis-invite Driscoll, which I signed as well as for those in Australia who protested his abusive, un-Christian behavior toward others, including women. "And how many knownot everything you read on the internet is true". Barnabus is the hero of this story that gets little press. Vulgarity and filth get fed to us little by little until we hardly notice weve ignored those first red flags and become part and parcel of the heresy. He urged Christians living in the city limits of Springfield to vote to repeal the law and to leave church with a Yes-On-Repeal yard sign. Can anyone explain this James River Church thing to me? Yes, I am familiar with Che and what he represents. Christian institutions are trying to express an organic Jesus in non-organic structures. You can learn a lot about someones character from how they treat those who are below them in status. When that donor eventually supported our decision to leave peaceably, Jamie Munson was in a pickle. Has he asked them to forgive him? But much of the Australian backlash has centred around Mr Driscoll's comments about women. CCHD encourages individuals who were present at the high-capacity event over the weekend to monitor for symptoms of COVID-19 for 14-days from the event date and seek medical attention if symptoms develop., Church officials defended themselves in a statement issued to KYTV-KSPR, noting that despite what the images show, we take seriously the safety and health of those who attend our services.. Certainly, or we are no better than he is. Ans. The lack of regard for the masking ordinance and therefore its fellow community members by this venue and its occupants is not condoned by the CCHD, the agency said. what would you say and do (if they stoned you) angry mob is murdering him openly publicly and shamefully. My old church Gateway has atmosphere teams in services to emotionally manipulate members and visitors. So start telling us exactly what in the blogosphere is false. So, I read what he wrote, I listened to his speeches, sermons, etc. Here me in this, the issue is Jesus. The Bible tells us lotz of neet stuff before it happen/happens. until he apologizes to the elders and church members he hurt so badly i dont think there will be a true repentance that God can use. I have read both accounts that Che was short for Chancho and also a play on his habitually calling everyone che which is slang for pal/friend etc. http://www.smh.com.au/national/hillsong-conference-shows-interview-with-controversial-us-pastor-mark-driscoll-20150630-gi1y6d.html, As a follow-up (Sydney Morning Herald 1 July 2015), Hillsong conference shows interview with controversial US Pastor, Mark Driscoll. An awful lot of people are having to do the exact same thing. If a pastor makes a statement denying allegations, it might be that his words and patterns of behavior, actions dont match. That got my attention as I was reading the comments yesterday evening. Weve got enough local crazy around here, we dont need Mark Driscoll and his He-Man Woman-Hating Circus. Within a few months most of the members of Mars Hill Church withdrew their support of orphans under our care. kinda like a person who has been abused i think, they sometimes have to get past that people may judge them for being stupid for falling for it, or they have to reconcile with the results of them speaking out, shunning, slander ie: the church calls them heretics because they dont attend anymore. . #driscollreturns paul most influential christian wrote most books this explains marks love of also writing books. How can they do that? "Join us as we welcome guest speaker, Pastor Mark Driscoll, while he presents Paul the ForgivenPastor Mark Driscoll speaks from Acts 6:8-15 to discuss the importance of forgiveness in our own lives through the example of the Apostle Paul. #driscollreturns paul most influential christian wrote most books this explains marks love of also writing books. COuld someone explain how its supposed to work without a leader . *MD and Mark Demoss calculated an irresistible snow job, tailored just for pentecostalworld (who are generally open to things without empirical proof). think of him as he is pray to glorified jesusking of kings lord of lords worshiped by angels. stephen says Ive gotta find jesus on the worst most devasting difficult damaging day of my life I have to find jesus (more mark interpreting the bible for all of us non pastors, stephen already knew where Jesus was) and he sees jesus, what is jesus doing? Our heart at James River Church has always been to minister to people in our community. i think that Jesus and God are Awesome, the only crisis i have been having is in my view of the world and the church. I dont see him pastoring a church and I am not even sure his legal problems from the last one are over. That was not my intention. Connection ends, shunning begins and the cycle begins all over again with the next batch of newbies. That would be terrible. Brian Houston, pastor of Hillsong Church, issued a statement over the weekend, which drew considerable media attention. Would you hire back the embezzler to count your cash drawer after he served a short sentence because you forgave him? i would rather be in fellowship with people that realise they still have sin but instead of rationalizing or blameshifting, show fruit of the Spirit in overcoming it. James River Church attenders should google What happens if you get a bad teacher. Working at James River Church: 40 Reviews - Indeed In the future, people will tell churches and christians to distance themselves from the dishonesty of the dishonest churches. Im fairly certain MD would enjoy being categorized with a so called revolutionary. Its a professional, corporate institutional model based on an unbiblical clergy/ laity distinction. Just some thoughts to consider. So many use Ches image as some sort of inspirational symbol. Of course he gave all kinds of excuses, Im young, brash, etc. But as he aged, and he spoke more and more, nothing changed, it got more vulgar, more illicit language, more rude, more obnoxious. When he agreed to accept an $850,000 annual pay package while other staff were being laid off due to declining offerings, was he in a fugue state, incapable of understanding what was going on? You want to go all Colonel Jessup and rant about the truth? actually Jesus spoke to people He had healed early in His ministry and told them not to tell everyone, they did anyway and He spent the rest of His ministry having crowds pressing against Him and having to go hide sometimes. He repeated what he has said in the past: He believes if the issue is to be addressed it should be done at the federal level. The question may even be wrong, maybe it isnt what is the church but who is. Wouldnt you encourage him to find another vocation? I would lay 50 to 1 odds that a change in MD will be announced and proved to be a change in words not a change in behavior! There seems to be a lot of the just finding out new information that everyone already knows about but which now changes everything affliction going around. Sincerely want to know what the alternative is. So as long as Driscoll can provide entertainment and ratings, Pentecostals will continue to book him. Some Pentecostals or Charismatics are okay with women being preachers or teachers. Consider how he attained it fleecing the flock. it isnt anguish if i dont care and i am just a head of some church deciding that someone cant seperate or divorce or annul because i dont have time to look into it right now and i will get back to them with my judgment when i think its appropriate. Maybe Driscoll feels a notch above Paul since hes not called for any ones death? I cant see those photos without also thinking of the images weve all seen of the impossible circumstances our hospitals are battling every day, Goddard began in a series of tweets. I had never heard someone talk like that. I would think that rehabilitation for him would be finding a job where he was not the boss and not the teacher. I wonder how much of this concern over gay rights is to deflect people from considering their own deficiencies. Its all PR spin, because they got caught with their (or, pardon the metaphor, MDs) pants down. I asked the mayor, specifically, how he will vote on the matter April 7. GW is also currently preaching John Hagees End Times Armageddon sermons to pump up the numbers, claiming the Rapture WILL take place prior to 12-31-18, in order to scare folks into those spontaneous tubs. His appeal, then and now, has much to do with his looks plus a perception of him being anti-establishment, which he was. In a statement to the Ozarks Independent, James River Church said it has taken temperatures at the door, sanitized its children's areas and common areas multiple times per day, provided masks. We need to be just absolutely rigorously adherent to things that we know work. On the other hand though a lot of people obviously like the guy enormously and his business model for his church is pretty successful. There is no glorifying God in any of that. people have said to stay involved in churches to keep them encouraged to follow the Lord and speak up if they are going away towards money and corruption, that is no longer even possible, you can get shunned slandered and prob threats to your life for speaking up anymore. I have also heard the thoroughly abusive interpretation of Psalm 105:15 touch not my anointed ones, do my prophets no harm. The point of closed systems is to keep them closed. Just watch any random hour of TBN or Daystar. In attempting to keep us from leaving they recruited the largest donor to Agathos (who was also a large donor to Mars Hill Church) to encourage us to stay. John Lindell has spoken. Others appear to draw some type of inspiration from Driscoll. Mark Driscoll has a lot of repenting to do and until he does that he should not be permitted to preach/speak at any church. Are they the ones that keep praying for their leaders to be decent people who dont crave power and position? OTOH, they may yet surprise us and probably even themselves. I think Christians make a huge mistake when looking at patterns of spiritual abuse, deception and tyranny as whether or not they are criminal according to our laws. Who cares about that pesky truth so long as there are clean bathrooms, great hot coffee and rockin worship? Thanks for your informative comment. Anyone who invites Driscoll without knowing his background also displays no judgement. This is why I said above I dont think Driscoll should even be allowed to go on speaking engagements, sell Christian books, or anything involving Christianity. I suspect that process would take a bit longer with Driscoll hes a bigger mess. This guy has lists on his page in bulleted form: https://musingsfromunderthebus.wordpress.com/2015/02/13/mars-hill-church-true-religion-does-not-abandon-orphans-and-widows-in-their-distress/. Christian geneticist and U.S. National Institutes of Health Director Francis Collins suggested most churches should postpone in-person services due to COVID-19 until at least summer 2021, when every American is expected to have had the opportunity to get vaccinated, The Christian Post recently reported. Could Driscoll really appeal to people now using his Macho Man shtick? He diverts attention from the real purpose, the Gospel, to himself. This is not a measure of faith. I did disagree, however, with this one sentence. Is this similar to Radical Chic? Pastors who give Mark Driscoll a platform are adding to the abuse of those of us who were abusively treated by Mars Hill Church. I told him that. Adultery, stealing, cheating, being abusive, being a drunkard can also keep you out of heaven.". In February of 2007, Mark Driscoll preached a sermon that included raising funds for Agathos. But MD has been a jerk as far as Ive read, not a criminal or anything. According to the Pastor John Lindell, Driscoll has spoken there on three other occasions. How can a reasonable person look past that? @ Lydia: But, as you said, there is no substitute for a work of the Holy Spirit. OT but of interest: the former pastor of a megachurch in Richmond, VA goes on trial tomorrow on charges of sexually abusing two minors in Texas some years ago. Theres a persistent rumor that hes going to bring his show here to Phoenix. in prison. Who has harmed you? How can they do that? After witnessing Philips miracles, he tried to buy the power with his money. Membership Covenants Blech!! . What Mark Driscoll Told Brian Houston at Hillsong Conference (updated) They are relinquishing 10-20% of their gross income. Ironically, in giving this speech, Lindell was doing just that shooting the wounded. No body guards. She was warned not to work with Agathos. Come on Lindell, Morris, Kellogg and Johnston. The resistance is to Jesus. I know people who were previously baptized that jumped in to get the swag. They secretly instigated men who said here come the false charges. They want their congregations and the world at large to believe that there are no amount of misdeeds that a pastor can perform, no matter how egregious, that means they shouldnt be instantly forgiven and returned to the pulpit ASAP. How they hold their hands, pat their hearts, stomp their feet, fall to their knees, wipe away fake tears, etc is all taught in classes. Associating with Driscoll might make them feel younger and edgy. Whats MDs explanation for the ritual shunnings? Totally. So, that is why I think it would have been wise for Driscoll to remove himself from the limelight and assume a servant posture. *carefully targeting pastors who want to build an empire of their own with an easy publicity stunt (although described Christian-like so it actually sounds noble, in both marketing and in the buying pastors self-talk), @ LT: Newer ones have theater seating or individual chairs. Lindell has expressed his views on the topic before. If you take his quotes about his economic policies in Cuba and substitute covenant or biblical Gospel he sounds about the same as the pastors we are discussing. this discussion you make today determines your destiny, God wants you to forgive. actually, i still think mark has a phenomena called mixture of spirits that derek prince wrote about. an important thing you wrote about gateway i think. . If not, why not? And Ive certainly heard many tales of people who were awful people moving onto ministry later on in life. That has made logical sense to me forever. We dont hear about them so much, unfortunately, because they are not so concerned with informing the world about their humility. As Gram wrote above these are relationships (if you can call it that) built on trust. The Lord had more to say about gall through His servant Jeremiah: Jeremiah 23:13-17 OTOH, they may yet surprise us and probably even themselves. So I can see why some churches would want him on board. If so associating with Driscoll they can get the thug part down. The Reformed Neo Cal world is going, Mark who?. As I was getting ready for church last Sunday morning, I quickly checked my Facebook feed for any news and saw the this headline (see screen shot below): I 'shared' the article from an Australian news source, along with a comment: "Mark Driscoll needs to step away from the microphone for a long season of contemplation.". Bob, I loved your comment. I see inviting Driscoll anywhere in the same context as some dumb kid wearing a Che Guevara t-shirt. Youre not one of us. http://godsbreath.net/2007/11/07/qualifications-for-pastors/, A few items: A preacher is not to be- Judging a pastors or missionaries repentance is not being critical of pastors, its saying, this is a position that has really high moral qualifications and if you dont have them, get out of the pulpit. Join us for life-giving worship, encouraging stories and testimonies, and a powerful message from Pastor John. Jesus Church or 501(c)3 Religious business? i tweeted: I think those that experience an event that is very bad or painful are often the lucky ones because you really cant second guess leaving. I seriously doubt that most younger people then or now who appropriate his image (here in N. America) know much of anything about him. Humility? As I said, I am not a fan, but I can see the appeal of *his image,* from way back in the late 60s when posters of him 1st started appearing in college dorms. We saw a good deal of quick forgiveness/cheap grace from defenders of TVC. LOL! But. He needs a revenue stream and using Jesus is all he knows. Albuquerque Blue reminded me of something about mark driscoll during the fall. paul was the most influential person in christianity after Jesus. I have always found this aspect of Pauls story very interesting. He needs to clean up the mess that he made. I know that tens of thousands left GW before I did and they walked away without the decency to help others. The following excerpt from that article caught my attention: "I do not want unnecessary distractions during our conference, particularly as this 30 minute interview was only a small part of this five day event," Mr Houston said in a statement. (I saw a guy do this on a live stage in England once, on a YouTube video. As much as I distrust Acts29 and the YRR, and as much as many see Matt Chandlers action as mere damage control, at least he admitted that they screwed up, and there is still hope that he really meant it and that they will really act differently in the future because theyve learned something. Reveal the conspiracy please. You have no idea how freeing it has been not to be shamed into believing the best groupthink of celebs when in fact, patterns, polity, hierarchical doctrines and associations should have given us pause all along. stephen is going to be filled with the Holy Spirit. (mark doesnt say that stephen was already filled with the Holy Spirit, the bible doesnt mention stephen being filled at that time at all) pure in heart shall see God. Mark' Driscoll's message has been uploaded on the church website, and we have included it here should you choose to watch it. Dont miss the title of Lindells May 16, 2014 blog entry: A large percentage of modern evangelical mega-churchianity is beyond comprehenshion. The first time, it was shocking. The problem is that the average pew-sitter has no idea what things a leader should be judged by. Mega-church Christianity with its rock bands, light shows, huge screens, and glitz reminds me more of Broadway than a church.